Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:16] Speaker B: Welcome to another episode of the Growth Focus Podcast where we bring tech leaders and leaders in business from all around the world to share their time, their expertise, but more importantly, their insights. My name is Gary Lafferty, your host and CEO and founder of the Growth Focus Partnerships where we elevate our clients voices so they actually become the authority within their field. Leveraging the power of webinars, podcasts and presentations. This podcast is all about growth. It's all about growing your company. What works today, what doesn't work anymore. And the focus is on the future. As we draw to an end of the year, what should we be looking out for when it comes to marketing and growth for next year? So without further ado, let's get started and jump straight into this episode. I couldn't be more happy to have our guest on today. So without further ado. Margie, fantastic to have you here. Why don't you start off by introducing yourself, tell us who you are and what is it that you actually do.
[00:01:12] Speaker A: Great. I'm Margie Morse, CEO of Big Orange Marketing. We're a digital marketing firm. We specialize in working with managed service providers, technology firms. We love to come in and help companies tell their stories through starting with websites. Make sure your website is differentiates you, is built for keywords and AI search so it gets found and then we like to make sure we're doing consistent content. So Google and AI keep finding you for what you're selling and what people need from you. So we, we love to do that from a marketing perspective.
[00:01:45] Speaker B: Well, that's fantastic. We're going to dive more into that as we delve into this episode. But let's find out a little bit about you if we can. Why don't you start off and just tell us what was your history and how did you end up doing what you are now doing?
[00:01:58] Speaker A: Yes. So I had a lot of experience working in marketing and digital marketing firms, different agencies and along the way three friends and I were building websites for people and we got together and said let's build a special place that's a great place to work and also helps women, so provides the flexibility that women need and hopefully future ownership interest for women as well. That's one of our goals.
[00:02:23] Speaker B: Gotcha. Gotcha. So let's talk about, let's dive into it and talk about growth. You've worked with builders, you've worked with MSPs. Like you said, blue collar tech. What patterns are you seeing in how these businesses actually grow? I know that's a very wide Open question at this stage, but you know, what are the commonalities that you're seeing that helps these type of companies grow?
[00:02:46] Speaker A: Yes, great question. So across all things, inbound marketing works. So being found for what you're selling. So, so constantly we're running the inbound methodology for people, which means, you know, writing that content, answering the questions that the buyers have along their journeys, like how long does it take to change managed service providers? How do I find a managed service provider I like working with? Who are the top custom home builders in Utah? What's the best landscape firm for patios or you know, patios versus, you know, decks? So the questions that people are asking along the buyer's journey are what we need to be creating content for on a website.
And still true today, more true with AI search than ever being found. Helping, guiding, educating people when it comes to the questions they're having showing up, that's getting found is, is the most important thing.
[00:03:38] Speaker B: Well, that's really interesting because I know it's common sense, but as you well know, common sense and common practice are two different things. Generally, you know, and you talk a lot about being found where the buyers are actually searching. And in a era we have Google, where most people understand Google, which is a more of a retrieval engine, and now you've actually got AI that's out there. What has changed in your, in your experience about the visibility in the AI era?
[00:04:04] Speaker A: Great, great question. There's lots of different ways to look at creating visibility in the AI area.
Think about the way you search on AI. You search top marketing firms that work with managed service providers, top custom home builder marketing firms. But you do more than that. You also search like recently a company found us because we also follow eos, the entrepreneur operating system. So they wanted to work with a company that was value aligned with them, that does the EOS system. So they searched eos. And I've been putting out a marketing plan that uses both EOS and ogsm. So I'm putting out content on eos. And so I found me for that reason, you know, marketing firm plus eos plus work with this was a manufacturer. So those three things all together and that's how AI found us. So those are even more interesting searches because people are further down the funnel of wanting to work with you by the time they book with you. So they're 23% more likely to convert through AI search than Google search of long ago. So these are very valuable searches that you want to show up for AI searches.
[00:05:13] Speaker B: Well, I want to talk about you just open up so much there just in that one answer. Marcus, I want to just break it down a little bit from there. You know, west, as soon as you said that, I mean, this is something we do not only for our own companies, but for our clients as well, I was trying to stop my head from moving. Is it behind me here?
And I know we've got listeners and viewers who are nodding their head going, yeah, that's what we use as well. But we also met, you also mentioned, you know, it's about they're so further down the line. This is something we talk about a lot. You know, there's a lot of marketing that goes to the, to the unaware. You know, they're not even problem aware yet, let alone solution aware. And if they are solution aware, they're not even solution provider aware. And what you're saying is that obviously if you can actually get found for people who are gone past the problem, where they've gone past solution, where now they're in solution provider aware, that's going to make it a lot more, a lot easier for you. But what I really want you to help us explain here is that you just say, yeah, the difference between AI search and Google search, you know, that you're looking for there. What, what is the differences for. For our viewers and our listeners, so they may understand. Oh, I didn't realize there was a difference.
[00:06:20] Speaker A: Whenever we're talking Google search, we're talking about people just searching in their Google. When we're talking AI search, it could be any number of things. It's like, you know, chatgpt, it's, you know, copilot, it's Claude, it's a million different search engines and there we're bucketing all those together and calling that like AI search, you know, even your Google search, when you're getting AI overview, we.
[00:06:44] Speaker B: See that as a combination, don't we? If you go to Google, there's an element of AI at the top if you're using Gemini and likewise. But yes, I mean, I know I'm actually using and transferring. It's old muscle memory, it's hard to break. But I am definitely, over the last six months started moving more to chat and asking the questions for searches rather than. Because then otherwise I have to do most of the work in Google. If I, if I got to search it in, I've got to search for all the pages, whereas chat is giving me pretty much the answers I'm looking for. And then I have to do that element of final searching.
[00:07:13] Speaker A: Agree totally, yes. Definitely a lot of people are switching to more AI search like it's rapidly escalating, like yeah, like the number. So through HubSpot analytics you can now see for the last two months the searches that are coming from AI search. It's finally separating them AI search from just referral traffic and it's just rapidly escalating. I think our AI search numbers that came through I would say quadrupled from the month prior. And then the quality of the marketing qualified leads coming onto our plate is also going way up because they already, you know, they know what we do, they've already spent time on our website so that's going up too. So I would say it's rapidly escalating.
[00:07:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean two quadruple months for a month on a month. That is unbelievable. Really. That is such a dramatic increase without going too depth, you know, too much into the woods here. How does one become a little bit more AI searchable as opposed to the old school of Google search?
[00:08:11] Speaker A: Google searchable One way to think about it is that Marcus Sheridan they ask you answer writing content for the questions that people are asking because they're asking AI those questions now. Then also think long tail searches like think about all the things that you do in the longer tail searches along with the cities you serve. If you're a local service area type of business just writing that content for the way people are searching. I think a great way to start is reverse engineer search yourself. Like how would someone search for you? Like top MSP firms, Cincinnati top MSP marketing firms, Cincinnati top builder marketing firms in the US Top builder marketing firms that also practice story brand. So think about all the things that are your attributes or your differentiators and make sure you're writing content about it. Also make sure this is on your homepage as well. So if you've won an award for anything, get that on your homepage. So now you're an award winning, you know, you know so if you're winning, if you're winning like a top home builder at a particular homebuilder show, that's an award. Get that on your website that matters. It's a current and it's award to get that stuff up.
[00:09:23] Speaker B: So yeah, those are very important things. And I think this is what especially within tech, you know and I know you work with a lot of MSP's self celebration is really hard for most tech people. You know they let, they tend to do product led and service led but then when actually comes to them and their, their awards, it's really hard to put them into the spotlight. So I'm glad you've mentioned that because I've been saying that for a long time now. It says, listen, go from the hilltops, you've earned it, but then you should be there. So that being said, what do you think MSPs and industrial businesses really misunderstand most about modern day marketing?
[00:09:57] Speaker A: It has changed substantially. I think a biggest, the worst mistake is when companies like think they can do it themselves. You know, like AI has put all these writing tools in your hand now and that's great but ready, aim, fire. You need a strategy and you need to be working against a plan. Like what are the keywords you're trying to hit? Where do you need to be seen as an authority? You know, don't just be generating content. So I think doing it yourself is a big mistake. Manufacturing industrial films firms not doing it all is, is a big mistake. Like relying on referral business way too long, not really putting in place the things you need to scale. That would be the biggest mistake for manufacturing firms.
[00:10:35] Speaker B: Do you know what? There's another thing you just brought up there that was that most certainly Marty me is consistency. Again we hear that a lot but again it's hearing it and doing it are two different things. What's your insights that you could share of us when it comes because we see it this especially within the tech industry, within the engineering industry, they give it a bash that they try it and they go ah, that didn't work. And then they stop and they go this doesn't work all the time. What's your thoughts on that? What's the mindset shift that needs to happen?
[00:11:03] Speaker A: You brought up something very funny. I love it when like manufacturing firms or some firms of any kind come to me and say nobody ever finds me through my website, I don't need a website. And you're like, that's exactly the opposite of what you should be thinking. Nobody is finding you through your website because your website's not optimized, it's not credible, that kind of thing. So that you just totally sidetracked me. That's the funniest thing I've ever heard. And I didn't, I lost the question.
[00:11:32] Speaker B: So yeah, again these are great things that people that MSPs and business tend to do wrong. It's their misunderstanding about modern day marketing. And we talk, we're talking about consistency, you know, and the fact that these guys are trying stuff, they're doing a shot in the dark, they might get an agency here, they might do something else. They might do email marketing, they might be a bit of SEO and they go, no, doesn't work. And then they just stop.
[00:11:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:53] Speaker B: And they, and they're just wondering why it doesn't work. What mindset shift, in your opinion, has to happen with these leaders and these founders to get past it? Shot in the dark, knee jerk reaction, once a quarter, you know, mentalities, you've.
[00:12:06] Speaker A: Got to give it time. If you are. If your website currently has like 18 keywords and you contact a marketing firm to redo your website, add more keywords and do consistent content, you got to give it time. You got to give it six months to nine months to get traction. Because if you're starting from 18 keywords, nobody's finding you for anything. So first you need to get the traffic up, you need to get found. You need to have, you know, the words you need to be found for it. Support Cincinnati Cybersecurity Cincinnati, AI Consulting Cincinnati. So you need to start getting up and it takes time. It's not magic. You have to display someone else. So someone else is being found today. You need to get the keywords up there and the credibility and the time on site and people interacting with your site to displace someone else to get that space. So you just really, really have to give it time. So giving it time is the biggest mistake?
[00:13:02] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
They're just not doing it properly. I love to think. Two things I want to bring up there with you is, you know, as you said, it's a displacement. That's not something that most people think of. They just think very internally, this is what we want, this is what we want to go and this is where we want to be seen. But actually it is a pecking order. Someone's been there longer than you, they've got the words right, a lot longer than you, and you literally got to knock them off their little pedestal one at a time. Very much like a, you know, very much like a league table. That's got to be done from there. But the other thing I want to talk to, share with you and discuss with you is there be listeners on this show who are global. Well, let's just take the United States for example, sake. What happens if a company like MSP is not just statewide, that they're, you know, the national you mentioned. Oh, in Cincinnati or in Utah or whatever. What should they be doing if they're, if they're more of a national company rather than a state company?
[00:13:54] Speaker A: Very intentionally going after each city one by one because it is a Local service area business.
Like, you know, an MSP in Cincinnati serves Cincinnati. Then you want to go to Columbus. You are trying to win people in Columbus and you want to be sort of part of that community for people to know, like, and trust you. So each city intentionally don't just say, hold on, let me tell this person. I'll call them back.
So you don't just sort of say, oh, no, I'm all of Ohio. You have to say, okay, I'm in Cincinnati. I'm going after Cincinnati. And Cincinnati is made up of suburbs like Blue Ash, Westchester. So you have to be well found in all of those. Then I'm going to go after Columbus. Then I'm going to go after Indianapolis. So you have to do it with intention. And you couldn't just say all of Ohio because nobody's searching it support Ohio. They're searching maybe Cincinnati or Columbus, but they're never searching like that other way.
[00:14:49] Speaker B: Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense.
Well, let's shift a little bit. I want to shift track a little bit here. And I know that you storybrand a lot.
[00:14:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:58] Speaker B: So storybrand is at the heart of your messaging work. Number one, could you please explain to us what storytelling a storybrand is and what is one mistake most tech firms make when it comes to telling their story?
[00:15:09] Speaker A: Yeah, great question. So storybrand is all about. The customer is the hero of the story. You are the guide. You're not the hero of the story. Nobody cares that you found your grandfather founded the company 20 years ago. They care about their problems and how you help them solve their problems and reach their goals. So that's the biggest mistake, the biggest mistake that a lot of technology firms makes is jargon like talking endpoints and talking, you know, all kinds of technology and not talking about the business value the business, how you're going to help that business person solve their challenges, how you're going to make life easier for them, how you're going to increase uptime, how you're going to help their business make more money. So that jargon is a thing to avoid. Another thing from story brand, very helpful. Is called the caveman test. Could a caveman come to your website, know what you are selling, how it benefits him or her, and then how they buy it? So keep it clear. We're selling this, this, this and this. We're selling these seven things. We're not selling 50,000 things. We're selling these seven things.
You know, this is how you can buy it because you have to think about your buyers coming to your Website. They're like a CEO of a whole different kind of company. They don't know jargon. They don't know what of these 20 different services they need. They know they just need their people to have their computers taken care of, have a great onboarding experience, help them run their business, help them scale that. That's what they're looking for. So storybrand really gets to that.
[00:16:40] Speaker B: Yeah, and I think this is the key thing. I mean, we use storybrand a lot as well as, you know. And it isn't, you are not the hero. This is. This is the thing that you kick off with that you're not the hero. The client is the hero, you're the guide. It's like the Luke Skywalker and the Yoda. They're the two different things all the time. And once you understand that, your storytelling becomes a lot more acceptable to the audience, doesn't it, and to your prospects.
So, again, let's talk. Let's move more on to SEO and sales conversion. I know this is something that you guys do as well. You've worked with both the SEO and then the sales conversion, you know, SEO to get the people to raise their hands and obviously the sales conversion, get them to become clients. Where would you say is the biggest leak in most company funnels? You know, they've done the hard work. They've got people into their company, they've said, yes, I want to know more. And then it's like a bucket. They just want to. Because one of the things I'm. To put this into context, I'm constantly saying, you don't need more leads. Sometimes you just need to fix the holes in your bucket, you know, and then once you've done that, then put more leads in. But where would you see as the biggest leak in most companies funnels?
[00:17:42] Speaker A: Yes, very much.
Not closing up and asking for the sale. And asking for the sale. Like, a lot of people just think, oh, I put the deal out there, and then I don't follow up, is what we see. And it's true story. I had gotten an estimate for a fence, and I knew that prices were going up and I was definitely needed a fence, and I would have bought from that company if they had followed up with me. One time, even though price was like crazy high, I was like, $5,000 for a tiny fence. I'm like, I'm gonna buy it because I need it. And it's. I know it's going up. They never reached out again. So same with, you know, the people we work with is the Hot lead, follow up. You put the proposal out in front of them. Follow up, follow up, follow up.
Share more case studies, share more stories of people you helped. Share more assets like here's a marketing plan. But for your company, like we would share, here's a marketing plan. How we here, how we create marketing plan. So share more things of value. Keep following up. To grow their reasons to, to want to work with you. That's I think the biggest hole in the bucket.
[00:18:47] Speaker B: Yeah, I think. And again, just by you saying that, it just resonates around in my brain all the time. It's not about you. Again, it isn't about you. It isn't about how great we are and how great our service is. It is the outcome they're looking for and you know, problem that you can solve for them and talk to that because that's the fictional. It affects me why they were searching for you in the first place because they have an issue that they want solving. And I see this time and time again you're right, they don't follow up. You know, we all know sometimes it takes up to seven, 10 times before someone is ready to buy. But they then talk about we're so great, we're so fantastic, this is what we should do. And it just, it's not the right way. So I want to do something very different here and I would like you to give us a little peek behind the curtain. You know, so what's working surprisingly well now out there that no one's really talking about?
[00:19:35] Speaker A: Okay, great question. New for 2020. Not new, but something more that's really changing in marketing that you really gotta layer on is outbound, outbound sales. There's so many tools now that are able to show who's in market looking for what you're selling. So you have like maybe 10 clients of your target in a city. Well, only like 2% at a time are looking for what you're selling, looking to change partners or looking for a new service. So when they are looking, they're sending signals. Signals, signal signals. So there's tools like Apollo 6 Sense, all of these types of tools that are now able to not only build you audience list, but build you the people that are searching for website design marketing. So that's in our space, but in everyone's space. High intent is now something that people should be focusing on. So we did recently, you know, we've been working at it. We build lists, we build high intent lists. We have email sequences that we send out through HubSpot. So you need A really good CRM system too. You need a CRM system. Keep all your leads in one place, figure out what they're doing.
So we build these lists every week. We put them in a drip and we nurture them. We, we share case studies, we share assets, we share articles. And then nurture them till they book a meeting with us and bubble up. And that, that is working. It takes consistency, it takes doing, takes paying attention to them too, like who's bubbling up and okay, time to reach out to them because they clicked the email twice or they opened it X number of times. Okay, they're bubbling up, get on the phone, get them booked, you know, that kind of thing. So that's, I think, new to a lot of people. The intent, tools.
[00:21:20] Speaker B: It is, it is. And I'm glad you mentioned that because, yeah, very much the. So, and I just want to clarify this. When you, when you, when you're talking about nurturing people via email and via this, are you talking about a cold email list or are you talking about a warm email list? What? Exactly. I love the listeners here to make sure they got it right and not, you know, full foul any spamming laws.
[00:21:42] Speaker A: Cold, cold emails aren't going to convert. These are, I would call them a little warmer because they're high intent. They're searching. So they are cold to us, like they don't know us. So we do have to send sales sequences following appropriate rules that HubSpot puts in place. So we send outbound sales sequences and then we also seek to connect with them on LinkedIn where people are expecting to be connected with on LinkedIn. And we say very transparently, we see you're looking for web design or marketing support, or we say, like our tools told us you're looking for web design and marketing support. We work with managed service providers and let us know if you want to quote. And so we're being very transparent. We're not like being phony. And a lot of people do connect and we follow up and say, you want help or hey, we don't need help right now. We're like, okay, sorry, we sent. Somebody sent the wrong signals. And so it's about, you know, building, building, connecting with people and, you know, getting to know more people and paying attention. What are they really doing?
[00:22:41] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely, that, that makes sense. That that's for clarifying that one with free class. I'm gonna go dial it back to storytelling just a little bit. And it's one of my great things. I love, I love the fact of stories, especially when you're doing presentations and webinars. Storytelling is very, very important. And I know you've mentioned, you know, you love to help American businesses prosper through storytelling. But one of the challenges that the industry, the tech industry has that we hear constantly is authenticity, trust. It's harder to build trust. It's harder to, it's harder to get the message out because of the lack of authenticity. And we know storytelling helps with that.
[00:23:15] Speaker A: Right.
[00:23:15] Speaker B: But one of the challenges, and I'd love your insights on this, one of the challenges isn't necessarily people being good or bad at storytelling. It's the fact that there's so much of AI generated stuff out there that, you know, people are almost turning down testimonials from people in case those that were just AI generated and not even real anymore now. So there is this general distrust. You can't blame the public and the other companies. There is a general distrust. What are your insights on this one, Margot? Or what piece of advice would you give to people who think, well, how can I compete against AI when it comes to storytelling and getting my message across?
[00:23:50] Speaker A: Yeah, so yeah, there is a lot of AI noise out there. What were one of the small tactics we're telling most people to start doing if you're not already is YouTube short series. So you're an expert in like I'm an expert in marketing. Just use your, your iPhone and just be recording short little videos. Those questions that people are asking you in sales calls like, do I really need a marketing firm with AI? Write those questions down. And that's what you could be recording little one minute videos on Always one minute would be great. And then like a marketing firm working with you, we can take that and you know, that has your authentic voice on it. We also do more interviews with subject matter expert interview based content to pull the stories out and then turn them into content. We're building AI brand portals, if you will, using Claude. So we're capturing everything about you every time we have a meeting with you. And you tell us things like, hey, we don't do cabling, we don't do this, we do these. You know, we're trying to capture everything about you. So we're building bumper Rails, but we're also capturing your real voice. So when you're telling stories, there's your voice and we can pull firsthand quotes from, from some of those subject matter expert interviews. So that's one way I think, to really tell authentic stories. And you know what I also tell people is a photo shoot is super cheap. Like it's like $300 through a tool called Snapper or Thumbtack. Get some real authentic images of your team. You know, if you're not normally in an office together, have a luncheon. Get everybody to like, doesn't have to be your office, you know, get everybody to a shared co working space. Take, take photos. Take real photos of your, of your team.
[00:25:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's a key thing. It's in a world where there's so much AI generation extra mile in being real. Show you, show your voice. Show your. I love that, what you said there, you know, about real life quotes. It's from, from your mouth, you know, as a CEO or leader. These are my quotes that are coming out. Absolutely love that.
Okay, I've got one final question for you, Mario. And you're looking ahead is 20, 26.
What, number one, what excites you the most about the forthcoming year and what worries you the most when it comes to sales and marketing?
[00:26:09] Speaker A: Yeah, I would say like AI is the answer to both of those. It's exciting, but it's also like a threat to, you know, people thinking they can do it themselves and then adding to more of the AI garbage noise. So AI very much excites us. I'm excited really to roll out these brand portals to all of our clients so they understand what we're doing and how we're capturing them and their stories and doing more of those subject matter expert interviews, adding that in, getting people to say, it's worth your time. You definitely want to schedule this. Even though you're busy, it's definitely worth your time. Or schedule us into the cybersecurity expert on your team or schedule us into, you know, schedule it. Talking to real people and talking to real people just excites me. I get really excited to, to get to know people and chat.
[00:26:55] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. This is what I do. What I do, I do this. I got to meet people like you and chat people with people like you as well. It's a, you know, it's a fantastic way to, to get to know. Well, listen, I lied a little bit when I said your last question. This is actually your last question. If you can go back and give young Margie one piece of advice about growth, success, building a business, what would it be and why?
[00:27:15] Speaker A: Yes, I would say, I guess that would be what I would say. Just keep learning things. A career is long. You're going to do a lot of things. Like my first beginning of the career was I was a programmer, so I programmed, but I also was an accounting degree. So I've done finances as well. Which all prepares you for building websites and running a business. A career is long. You're going to change, you're going to learn a lot of things, you're going to do a lot of things. Just keep learning. I guess I'd say that.
[00:27:46] Speaker B: I think that's a fantastic piece of advice to leave. So, Margaret, if people want to contact you, maybe potentially work with you, learn more about you, what's the best way of doing that?
[00:27:53] Speaker A: Yeah, our website's big orange marketing and you can always book a meeting right there.
We're trying to provide a lot of value in that meeting. Like we'll look at your website and give you some tips and stuff like that. Not always trying to sell you, but, you know, give you some tips and stuff like that as well.
[00:28:08] Speaker B: Well, I'll make sure those links are in their show notes so people can use it straight away. So all that remains, we say, is thank you very much for being our guest today. It's been an absolute pleasure having you and thank you so much for sharing your insights.
[00:28:20] Speaker A: Thank you, Gary.
[00:28:21] Speaker B: And thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for joining us again for another episode of the Growth Focus podcast, helping your business grow into the new year and beyond. Now, like always, if you, if Margaret has said something that you thought that, oh, that's really interesting, make sure you like, make sure you comment so other people can see that as well. But more importantly, you've heard this before from me, is that we grow by standing on the shoulders of giants, of leaders like Margie and the others. So please make sure that you, you share episodes like this with others so that we can all grow together. So until next time, keep working smart. More importantly, please be profitable and we shall see you on the next episode. Byebye.
