Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:17] Speaker B: Welcome to another episode of the Growth Focus Podcast where we bring together leaders from all across the globe to share their time, their insights and their expertise with us when it comes to growing businesses. My name is Gary Lafferty, your host and CEO and founder of the Growth Focus Partnerships where we turn MSPs founders and consultants, take their expertise and turn them into the authorities that they are in their field through webinars, workshops and presentations. Well, I can't wait to get started on this particular interview. I've been waiting weeks for this one. So without further ado, let's get started and bring in our guests. Holly, it's an absolute pleasure to have you here today.
Why don't you start by introducing us to who you are, Let us know who you are and what is it that you do.
[00:01:03] Speaker A: Sure. So my name is Holly Mack. I am a fractional CMO and marketing leader for tech companies, including MSPs, IT service companies, VARs, really B2B tech, and software as a service as well. And I've been doing this for 10 years now. Actually, it's coming up on 10 years and been in this space and been helping, you know, B2B tech companies grow organically, you know, using marketing strategies that I say work.
A lot of people have been burned by marketing agencies and so I bring a little bit of a different approach to marketing.
[00:01:46] Speaker B: Well, I can't wait to start unpacking that as we grow through our interview together. But before we do that, let's get to know you a little bit more. Holly, let's start with your journey.
Can you share with us what pulled you into the world of tech and MSPs and what keeps you excited about this particular space as opposed to another genre?
[00:02:04] Speaker A: You know, really it was just opportunity, meeting the right people.
There was a need at the time. I decided, okay, let me dive in and see if I can handle this client. And it started really more on the social media marketing side and started learning that specifically with LinkedIn even earlier LinkedIn days. And, and that's really how I started in the space. And then from there it grew. I started with social media management, then I learned the business, I really learned how IT service companies, MSPs work and I started doing more and more things within the space and I ended up finding my niche and just staying in B2B tech.
[00:02:47] Speaker B: Do you know that it's always great to hear someone who knows their swim lane and sticks their swim lane and becomes known for what they actually do? And I love the fact that it's marketing. And this is why I was looking forward to this particular episode. Because especially when we're talking tech, you know, and all the thousands of people that we've talked to within this industry, one of the keywords that they tend to cringe about is marketing. They know their products, their developers, they're engineers, they built their companies. When it comes to marketing, it's not exactly their forefront. And a majority of them, when you ask them, as you well know, have built their business predominantly on referrals. There's a much heavier lean and slant towards building their business on referrals. But as you know, this isn't the only way of doing things. So you've worked with dozens of tech companies now. What would you say is the most common marketing mistake you see over and over and over again in this field?
[00:03:38] Speaker A: I think I see three, three things.
The first being an unclear message. I feel like they oftentimes struggle to create a differentiation. An offer and IT services for everyone doesn't work as well as, you know, people who know their lane and know who they serve, what they sell, the problems they solve for that market. It's almost like you need to speak to one person.
And that's one of the problems I see is just not having the foundation to build a marketing strategy upon or a marketing system on.
And then the second one would be, I call it founder led chaos. So there's no one that really owns execution. It's not, you know, there's no one dedicated to marketing execution. And what ends up happening is the toolkit gets purchased or a program gets purchased and then the CEO is wearing multiple hats, trying to write blog posts, trying to send out email campaigns. And so it's, it's a little bit chaotic and execution is not consistent.
And then I'd say the third thing I see a lot is chasing shiny new things.
Meta ads. Let me try that, let me try. LinkedIn automation.
And it's like they try and dabble in a bunch of different things instead of sticking with one or two key channels with a clear focus and just consistently doing that.
Those are the things I see most, most often.
[00:05:08] Speaker B: Well, I'm glad you've mentioned that because again, whenever we speak to founders and leaders within the tech industry, the word marketing is usually followed by the word try. I've tried this, I've tried that.
What are the few things that, in your experience have you found that they've tried? You know, perhaps SEO, webinars, content that they've, they tried them and haven't worked. And why do you think they haven't worked for them?
[00:05:36] Speaker A: So I hear. I actually met with a founder who'd spent a hundred thousand dollars on SEO and it failed and he got no revenue from it. I think he'd had some form fills but zero revenue. And that's, that's when I hear SEO. And then I'll go into analytics and I'll see that their web traffic is basically non existent. And so there's no accountability. They don't understand SEO. They're, they're giving an agency their dollars, but they themselves don't understand it. And so there's no real accountability. It's great for the agency because hey, they don't really have anybody driving them to perform because the founder doesn't often know anything about it. And so dollars are getting spent and no one really knows what's happening. And so that I've heard, I've heard people blowing 15, 20 grand on ads and again, money down the drain. And you know, for, for both of the cases I'm thinking of the two founders I'm thinking of, they really didn't have the, the foundation in place. They didn't have a clear message, they didn't have a clear target, a clear offer.
And so to me you're always throwing away money if you don't, you don't get that right before you start campaigns.
[00:06:49] Speaker B: So it's actually knowing what your outcome is. And I, I, we hear this all the time, you know, where they just palm it off to another company expecting the silver bullet. It's gonna work. It' and it. And they wonder why it doesn't work. So why do you think so many MSPs and founders believe marketing in general doesn't work for them and they have to rely on word of mouth because that's the only way they know.
[00:07:13] Speaker A: I think it's because they haven't had, you know, those three things I mentioned. They haven't had a foundation. They don't have the competitor research, they don't have the customer research. They haven't done the work to set it up correctly. And so to me, if you don't do that, no marketing campaign will save you. It will always fail.
And I think that's, if I had to say one reason, that's probably it. And then second would be consistent execution. Even if you outsource it to an agency, it's very hard to outsource all of your marketing to an agency.
Agencies are great when used strategically, but again, nobody is going to be as accountable as you are. Nobody knows your business as well as you do. I feel like there needs to be internal accountability for marketing because it, it often fails when it's 100% outsourced.
And I think that, you know, they just, they don't set it up right.
[00:08:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I think they don't know what they don't know. They're not marketeers. They, you know, they, we see it all the time, don't we, that they're very service led. They lead with service, they lead with product and they think that just because of what they, they've got a great whatever. The thing is that that's enough to get them over the line and because that's predominantly how they built the majority of their business. But then they get to this level, you know, usually we get to see that at the first sort of seven figure level they go, well, now what? I don't have a plan.
Pure grunt and reputation has got me to where I am today, but I don't actually have a plan to move forward. So let's talk about the fix, Holly. You know, we've talked about what the challenges are and where they're going wrong and the challenges and problems that they have. Let's talk about what works instead. What have you found that's actually working right now to generate leads and to grow pipeline for your clients?
[00:08:58] Speaker A: Like the actual strategies that we're using?
Okay, so what works? I mean, I can just go through what we do that works. There's a lot of strategies out there. But again, SEO won't work if, if you haven't done the foundational work. Paid ads won't work if you don't know who you're selling to. What works, from my experience and what, what sets marketing up to either succeed or fail comes down to looking first at who you're selling to. Where does revenue come from? Who are your best customers? Are we, we going after the people we we want to sell to? Have you done some competitor research to define how you're different in the marketplace? You know your moat, what is your moat? And it's hard to know that if you haven't looked at competitors anyways and then do some customer research. How do they describe you?
What do they say about you?
Like even getting the exact words they use is really helpful because then when you do set up a campaign, it resonates more with the people that you're selling to. And then strategy wise, if all that is done and you've done the work, set it up, maybe spend a few weeks, couple weeks getting that nailed. SEO Organic is our highest ROI channel for our MSPs and tech companies. Inbound and surprising.
It's the hardest to get working. But the reason I love it is because it compounds. Once you start producing the content, once you start doing the SEO, it's a compounding asset. It's. And it will generate returns.
I'd say that's equal or second, though, to referrals. Once you've done your referral system, you got that going. Like you said, most rely on referrals. After that, I'd say SEO. And then eventually at our companies, we help SEO ends up even outperforming referrals as far as looking at attributed revenue over time.
[00:10:59] Speaker B: And I think the key thing there to take away, Holly, is that nothing will work if you haven't done the groundwork for it. Like you said, if you, if you haven't built your moat, if you don't know what makes you special, if you're competing like everybody else, then it doesn't matter what you throw at something. You're just sounding the same. And one of the challenges that we hear all the time, not just on this channel, but through my clients as well, is Gary. We're finding it harder and harder and harder to stand out. We can't even get to have a conversation because we can't build trust. We can't build trust because we're not. Our message isn't landing. And I think what you said there really, really goes down to saying, well, what if you don't know what makes you different?
How is anybody else expected to know what makes you different?
[00:11:46] Speaker A: Right.
[00:11:48] Speaker B: You know, and it's tough. We see it all the time. Well, we give great service. We're your number one. You know, we're. We're beyond. We are fantastic. But that's what everybody else is saying. And it's almost like the. Oh, I'll call it out here. It's almost like the lazy way of doing it, isn't it? It's like, yeah, we'll just make. Say we're the best and we're the greatest and. But everyone else is saying exactly the same thing.
[00:12:05] Speaker A: Our service is the best. We're proactive. We hear all the same words. Yes.
[00:12:10] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. And although it sounds great to you and your mum and your friends, this is what they're hearing 20 times a day from your 20 competitors. And you've got to stand out from there. So I'm glad you've mentioned that. Is that moat of knowing. But the key thing I took away from that is that you Said, yeah, it'll take you two, three weeks, we'll put some time into it or whatever the case may be in the long term, putting that out is, although it sounds, oh, I haven't got two to three weeks to focus on this, if they do do that, it pays off so well in the long term, doesn't it?
[00:12:46] Speaker A: It does, yes. Just blocking off time, dedicating it to setting it up right, you know, few weeks. If you have the right templates, the right frameworks, you know, you can knock it out. It's doable.
[00:12:59] Speaker B: So let's talk about founder led marketing. You know, we know that in this industry there's founder. Founder led sales is very prevalent. We still have got clients and people who are 15, 20, $25 million still doing founder led sales. But founder led marketing is one of those things which tends to get kicked to the curb extremely quickly. They do that little bit of marketing, then they do more fulfillment and then marketing tends to stop or they've handed over to somebody else. How do you help remove the founder as a bottleneck without losing the authenticity of founder led marketing?
[00:13:37] Speaker A: Founder led is, it's a key strategy actually at all of our, our companies.
It's still important, you still need to do it. Especially those companies. Sub 5 million, sub 10 million, which, you know, a lot are.
What we do is we don't keep it founder led. The founder may be the one we start with, but we really bring in other team members and we replicate that process for other members of the leadership team or other thought leaders. Doesn't have to be a CEO or a cio. It could be somebody else who is a thought leader at the company and wants to be. And we do a similar strategy for them as well. So it's not just the founder, but it's really a team and that, that really helps. And then a process. So we're not always bugging the CEO for content, for, hey, can you, can you record this? Can you do this? It does become a bottleneck quickly. And so then we create a system where we can get what we need from multiple members of the team.
[00:14:33] Speaker B: So I think that's, I love what you just said there about creating a system.
It doesn't have, as you say, it doesn't have to be the CEO, it doesn't have to be the founder, but there's a system in place. It's not just like I said earlier, kick to the curb and let anybody pick it up in the team that's going to run with it. There's actually, okay, you're going to be the voice of it, or you guys are going to be the face in the front of it, but just keeping that authenticity of growing that company. So let's talk about some hard truths, because I'm a great believer in saying what you mean and mean what you say.
What's the hard truth about marketing that every tech founder needs to hear Hollywood but often avoids?
[00:15:12] Speaker A: I'd say a hard truth is there's no easy button and no agency will save you.
I think they get tied into a lot of these ads. They see a lot of these gimmicks. Hey, we'll get you 15 to 20 meetings. We'll get you four to six clients this month. And I think, I think they've all tried those things. And.
[00:15:36] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it's not like you said, not falling for that shiny thing or that magic, that magic pill. It doesn't exist. It's about creating the right system and the right process from the start. So if somebody is listening or watching this, Holly, and feeling stuck in that oh, we've tried everything mode and nothing really works.
What is a very small shift that you could suggest to them that they can make today that would just get them out of that rut?
[00:16:09] Speaker A: I would say start with the foundational work.
Start with who you serve, what you sell, what you do differently.
And I'd say do that work, get your foundation right. Pick one channel, not 10.
Pick one channel to start with.
And if SEO is too daunting because it takes three to six months to start seeing something that, that's a little bit of a myth, it can be faster.
Start with LinkedIn. Pick one channel that you know your target market is on block some time for consistency each week. Delegate. Big fan of delegation. If you have somebody on the team not fully utilized that you could put a, you know, a list of things to do consistently each week, offshore it, however you need to get the consistent execution. But pick one thing to start with and go deep on that. And if you have no leads today at all and you haven't started with referrals, I'd say do that first, then maybe pick one other channel.
[00:17:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I think this is the key, is focusing and going deep on one channel first rather than doing the spray and pray and then hoping one of those will pick up or of any quality. But again, if you're not known for one thing in one channel, then you're still the big, biggest kept secret because you're going to get lost in, in the socials because there are a gazillion of others out there. And I like what you say. It's focusing on LinkedIn. So I just want to, before we wrap this up, talk a little bit more about LinkedIn. There isn't a day that goes by, Holly, where I don't speak to somebody who says, yes, I'm active on LinkedIn. And when you ask them exactly what active on LinkedIn means is that they do the occasional comment on somebody else's post, what would you suggest would be. If someone just had to break that mold and go, okay, I don't. I understand. LinkedIn is the way to go. That's where majority of my people are. What would you suggest is the first thing they should just. Just go out and do on LinkedIn?
[00:18:13] Speaker A: The first thing to do on LinkedIn would be post something, you know, engage in your feed and a block off 30 minutes of your. Your hour, your lunch break, like some posts. Post something, comment on a few things and connect with a few people. I mean, the most basic level, doing those four things.
If you did that consistently, you'd see something.
[00:18:40] Speaker B: Yeah, I totally agree with you. It's just those extra little bits as opposed to just commenting or liking somebody's posts. You've got to put yourself forward as well, you know, and start building up your network and, you know, it's very, very important.
So, Holly, as a last question, a bit of a loaded question for you. Thank you very much for your time so far today. But I do have a bit of a loaded question, as I have all my guests. If you had to leave our viewers, our listeners, with one piece of advice today, one takeaway, that would really help them in the process of growing their business, what would that one takeaway be?
[00:19:19] Speaker A: I'd say, you know, get rid of the noise and focus on what matters. I know that's very broad, very vague, but when I. What I mean by that is go deep on one to two channels with a clear understanding of who you're serving and what you're marketing.
And it's that concept of clarity and focus over, you know, doing too much. But I'd say focus on what, what matters. The. The 80, 20. I mean, you could call it a few different things, but it's doing the, the 20% that will move the needle versus trying to do everything.
[00:20:03] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Just a little bit more focus on what they're doing. So, Holly, thank you very much. If people wanted to get hold of you, to talk to you a little bit more or perhaps know how to work with you, what's the best way of getting hold of you.
[00:20:14] Speaker A: Holly Mac is my name. I'm on LinkedIn, LinkedIn.com I think the little symbol-hollymack M A C K is my last name. That's, that's the best way. I'm active on LinkedIn and yep, I'll respond there. So appreciate it. Thank you.
[00:20:28] Speaker B: All right, well, I'll make sure those are in your, no, not at all. I'll make sure those are in the show notes at the bottom as well so that they can do a one click and get and get through to you. So all that remains, Holly, is thank you very much for your time and sharing your insights of us today. It's been an absolute honor having you here.
[00:20:43] Speaker A: Thank you. Very nice to be here. Thank you so much. Bye bye.
[00:20:46] Speaker B: And thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for joining us as well for another episode of the Growth Focus podcast. And as per you, if you are an avid listener by now, you know what I'm going to say, if you've liked something that Holly has mentioned today that you thought, oh, that's interesting, I could do that. Make sure you like it, make sure you comment on it so that people can actually see what has made an impact for you. But more importantly, please share, share this episode with other others as well so that we can all grow together. So until the next time, keep working hard, but more importantly, be profitable and we shall see you on the next episode. Bye bye.
